Just a a little rant that I HAVE to get off my chest!
• For those of you who visit regularly, you know that we've been in a new church since January. Our church is out of the box and seeking to reach out to the community around us and the world at large. For the most part, it is a good fit for me and my family. Because it is so mission minded, and reaches out to all types of people, it attracts all types of people. Don't get me wrong, I love this. But it is also one of the things that I find frustrating.
We have several people who are involved in homeless ministry here in our town. They are directly involved in giving food and clothes to people in need. Now, please understand what I am saying. Often people who work in these settings are more "radical". One person that attends regularly is a "pastor" who works at the Salvation Army. I'm not sure what he's a pastor of...but suffice it to say he's a bit "out there". He wears a ring on each hand. He carries a ton of keys that rattle when he walks. He is often dressed in Christian t-shirts. I'm not trying to judge appearance, I want you to have a picture. For me, it reminds me of when I was a new Christian and people were called, "Jesus Freaks" and "Radically Saved" which again, I do NOT have a problem with (and even admire) most of the time.
One of the last times I was in church before all our traveling, the children were "dancing" in the middle of the floor in front of the worship band. It was really fun watching them be so joyful. This man was in the front row and began throwing silver coins into the crowd of children. I am assuming these were some type of "witnessing coin". Of course it sent the kids scrambling like they were at a town parade each time one went clink on the hard floor. I was still "ok" with this...although the teacher in me could see a potential disaster. The kids were happy, however, and all was well.
Anyway, after the children disbursed, he started walking around the room and putting these coins in the hands of people who were worshiping with their hands raised. THIS bothered me. I mean people are in a state of worship with their eyes closed and he is going up and touching their hands and giving them these coins. I wondered if they were bothered as I would have been. In my mind that's like someone interrupting a prayer.
This person will often stand up AFTER the pastor has spoken and add something else...a prayer request, a testimony, etc. THIS bothers me. I mean ONCE in a while, OK, but when it becomes an every week occurance, I find it annoying. I am usually busy reflecting on the teaching and it's like he has to add a PS...WHY??
Yesterday, he came in and sat down in front of us. During the worship, he ran in FRONT of the worship band twice to go say hello to someone across the room. Anyone with manners would have gone behind the seats and not made a spectacle of themselves. THEN, upon returning to his seat, the worship continued. Suddenly, he pulled out one of those silver coins and rolled it across the floor to the people he'd just greeted! The coin clinked across the floor and hit the wall on the other side of the room.
It disturbs MY worship. I know it may sound selfish. I know that I should be focused on God and not on people, and I've TRIED to let it go. I can't. Or I haven't yet.
I told DH after the service yesterday that I almost went up to him afterwards to tell him that he is a distraction. But I don't know this person. And I am not sure what he'd think hearing such words from a "woman". Some men would be bothered by that and discount it because of it. DH said he also thought about approaching him yesterday, kindly, but firmly.
What do you think? What would you do?
15 comments:
Wow, I think I would have trouble with that too. The Salvation Army does have a church and the pastor's of the church are called Captains. I seriously doubt this man is a Captain however.
I think I might talk about it with a worship leader or another leader in the church before approaching this man. However, I think that if we can ask people to silence their cell phones soas not to distract other worshippers, that you certainly can ask this man to try to change some of his behaviors too.
That being said, there are a lot of worship styles that are quite appropriate in other cultures that we would consider inappropriate, so that is , to me, what makes it seem like such a hard situation.
I am looking forward to the thoughts of others! Much luck to you!
That would disturb me too. I'm a major people watcher and having that kind of thing going on in church would bug the fire out of me. I am surprised that the pastor hasn't mentioned something to him. It seems like that would be a respectful voice of authority...we appreciate you and enjoy your expression of worship, but please be mindful of others around you...kind of talk.
Keeping you in my prayers!!
And because I'm too lazy at the moment to find your email address...you let me know when you head out this way and I'll make sure that we have a HUGE HUGE party in your honor (and just for the fun of it!) :)
Yes, that would certainly bother me, too. There is a time and place for everything and it certainly isn't in the middle of church.
I'm willing to bet that if his behavior hasn't already been noticed by your pastor and other church folk, it soon will be. Like you said, I would be hesitant to talk to him. I would let my husband do it. He may respond better.
It's so good to see you back in action, Susan!
I think it should be a matter for church leadership to handle.
Susan
Susan, I certainly agree with what everyone has said. It would certainly bother me. I am also a people person as you probably know and that would bother me right away!! I think that I would go to the Pastor or someone at the church and ask if this has been brought up. If it hasn't then it NEEDS to be and soon. I am sure that his intentions are good but he does not need to make a spectacle of himself. Let us know what happens. I can certainly understand why you need to vent...Sandy
Hmmmmmm. and here all along you had a 'real life' scenario to my post of 'what would you do?" :)Although I agree with the above comments, I must add my two cents...from all indications it appears that this individual suffers from some type of mental disorder. There is more going on here than just his outward behaviors and I think if we look beyond these we will find a disturbance of some kind. It may not be severe, but it is enough to be disruptive to 'mainstream' society. I would have a problem with talking with this individual about curtailing his behaviors in church...that certainly would be a role for the leadership...however, sometimes the leadership of our churches are too 'led' by appearances and may speak unwisely. After all...like I will write today...it is God's home, not ours....but I understand the annoyance and the disruption..it would make me uncomfortable...but I am such an uptight person anyway ;)
Wow, does this behavior bother your husband or the boys too? What is their take on his actions? I would think that the church leadership should talk with this person.
Meanwhile I would do some serious praying about it. If it gets to the point you are having difficulty worshiping there I would look for other places to wirship.
I know that sounds harsh, but God knows your heart and your motives. We are told to guard our hearts and frankly that behavior would annoy me and be a distraction to worship.
This is definetly a difficult situation...
I think that when it interupts the worship of God it should be addressed. Lovingly, caringly. But somehow I think it should be addressed, not in that he is sinning (unless what he is doing is somehow self glorifying), but in that it is taking the focus of the congregation off of God.
By this man's reaction to this information you will better be able to tell where his heart is at.
No matter what, I highly encourage you to pray about it with your husband. If God is leading you to lovingly address this issue, then continue to pray! :)
BTW - I listened to a sermon titled "The Pursuit and Practice of Fellowship" that has really spoken to me about this kind of thing. I linked to it in my blog if you feel so led.
No matter what, I pray that God will continue to speak to you and your family. And may your hearts and minds ever be focused on the source, and recipiant, of our worship.
ybi Christ
You named the number one reason I am currently not attending there.
Daniel
Affectionatley know as DS1
I'm a traditional worshiper. I don't think I could even pay attention with all the nonsense going on. I think I'd mention it to the pastor or lay leadership...
If that didn't work, I'd find someplace else that was a good fit for me.
xo
LBC
I think he's making it all about him. He doesn't sound very genuine to me.
Susan, this person is either narcissistic or socially immature and doesn't understand boundaries. I talked with hubby about this and his advice (and I totally agree) is that it is the responsibility of the church to discipline itself. You and your husband or another trusted person who agrees with you should go to him and tell him how his actions are disrupting worship and drawing the attention away from what is important.
If that doesn't work, go to the pastor and ask for his intervention.
I agree with you, I think people should worship in the way they want but not if it interferes with the worship of others.
You are among friends, so you can share whatever is on your mind. We love you still!!!
Mmmm. Wow! Well, my immediate thoughts on this sort of mixed with everyone else's. I don't think I would speak to him myself... but if it were happening at MY church, I would speak to Pastor, and he would put ONE OF US in our place! (likely the guy!) Or he would assign one of his delegates to do it.
It certainly WOULD disturb me - I'm one of those people that does not even like the family behind me to be quietly conversing. I like to focus on the hymns, the readings, and the sermon. DON'T mess with my service!!! LOL!
I also agree with Daisy that if nothing IS done about it, or if he continues anyway, then you should look for another place of worship. It may be this really isn't your spot.
Good luck!
(NOW, I'll run up the board and see what DID happen - cuz I'm late comin' around ... again. *sigh*)
It really is the responsibility of the 360 Pastor to speak to him.
I am a Pastor and I love lively worship. But the Bible says that God is a God of order and no service is to be out of control.
First I would speak to the 360 Pastor and then, if necessary, to the man.
I might have Daniel with me as he is into mixed martial arts if I needed back-up. :)
FIL
Yes, I would speak to the man.
My 2 cents? Well, I agree that someone may need to instruct him on appropriate behavior. He may be (as someone said above) someone with some mental problems...or he maybe someone who wasn't raised in church.
We all have our expectations of how church should or shouldn't be...based on what? ...For most of us, based on how we were raised.
Please don't take this next part wrong but in our society 'church services' are such artificial settings. What I mean is this, where else do we do anything like we do at church? How would you know how to act if you stumbled into a church for the 1st time at oh about 20-something years of age? You'd probably act like you do at football games or rock concerts...at 30-or 40-something you might be a tad bit more 'sophisticated' and act more like when you are in a movie theater or your child's school production.
I'm still looking for the verses in the Bible that tell me that I am supposed to sing 3 hymns, take an offering, hear a sermon with 3 points, a poem and a prayer, have the closing and leave. Now don't get me wrong...I love our modern traditions around Sunday morning but it is because it is what I have been raised to love. I wonder what I would think of today's services if I had worshipped with the 1st century Christians...
So yes, in love, speak to the leadership of your church, particularly the leadership of his age group (adult pastor, outreach director, senior pastor, etc) and ask that person how each of you as his brothers and sisters in Christ can help him to learn and adapt to our modern traditions. He may not know that he is doing anything 'wrong' or 'unacceptable'. Then as everyone else said, if it is still a stumbling block for your Sunday morning worship, then prayerfully seek the Lord and ask Him if this is truly where He wants you to be. He may be using this man to nudge you out this door and through the church that He has waiting for you.
And just to clarify...I did not say that worship or church is artificial...just that to the world that we live in, it is an artificial setting.
Oh how I pray that the above makes sense when other read it.
:-) :-) :-)
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